Ask Wan Question Podcast: Episode 3 — Brighton Community Church

Ask Wan Question Podcast: Episode 3

Podcast Details

Overview
Episode 3 takes four more hard, honest questions — about deathbed conversions and rewards in heaven, IVF, people with disabilities or severe mental illness, and abusive marriages — and answers each one by holding together God's grace and God's justice, honesty where Christians disagree, and a fierce care for those who are vulnerable.

Date
Oct 16, 2026

Speaker
Rev Dr William Wan

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

If someone repents on their deathbed, do they get the same heaven as a lifelong servant of God?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

0:00 | 0:00

In Short

Salvation is the same free gift of grace for the deathbed convert and the lifelong disciple. But Scripture also teaches degrees of reward: a lifetime of faithful service is seen, valued and rewarded by God.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

Episode Transcript

QUESTION 1

If someone repents on their deathbed, do they get the same heaven as a lifelong servant of God?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

Summary

Rev. Wan recognises the quiet pain behind this question: when you have poured your life into faithfulness, a last-minute conversion counting the same can feel unjust. That reaction is a real form of the justice instinct God put in us.

Jesus addresses it in the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1–16), where those hired at the eleventh hour receive the same wage, and the landowner asks, "Are you envious because I am generous?" Entry into the kingdom is a gift of grace, not a wage (Ephesians 2:8–9). But Scripture also teaches degrees of reward distinct from salvation: works are tested by fire (1 Corinthians 3:12–15), we will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10), and the parable of the talents rewards faithful stewardship proportionally (Matthew 25).

He contrasts a celebrated person who lived a profligate life and turned to God in old age with all their wealth intact, and an uncelebrated person who gave up a promising career to serve God and ended life with a small flat and small savings. Both are saved by grace, but he believes their rewards will be immensely different.

Key Learning Pointers

Feeling that a deathbed conversion is unfair is an understandable justice instinct, not pettiness.
Salvation is the same free gift for everyone. No one earns it, whether they believe at five or at ninety-five.
Scripture teaches degrees of reward in heaven, distinct from salvation itself.
Faithfulness is never wasted. It is seen, valued, recorded and rewarded by God.
The lifelong believer loses nothing when a latecomer is welcomed in.

What You Can Do

Don't let this question breed self-righteousness ("I have earned more") or despair ("Why bother being faithful?").
Remember that God is no debtor to anyone. He is generous in granting salvation, and even more generous in rewarding His good and faithful servants.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

If someone repents on their deathbed, do they get the same heaven as a lifelong servant of God?

00:10

Hi everyone, it's Reverend Wan here, and I welcome you to the Ask Wan Question podcast. The first question I have today is: "If someone lives a wicked life and repents on their deathbed, do they get to go to the same heaven as someone who served God their whole life? Are there degrees of reward in heaven, or is it the same for everyone?"

00:40

There's often something quietly painful beneath a question like this. Maybe you've poured out your whole life in faithfulness, sacrifice and obedience, and the idea that a last-minute conversion counts the same feels unjust — even insulting to everything that you've given. That reaction isn't petty. It is a real, understandable form of the justice instinct God has put in us. So let's take it seriously.

01:17

Our Lord Jesus actually addresses something very close to this directly in the parable of the workers in the vineyard. We can read about this in Matthew 20:1–16. Workers who were hired at the eleventh hour receive the same daily wage as those who worked the full day, and the early workers grumbled about it. The landowner's response was essentially: "I have done you no wrong. Are you envious because I am generous?"

01:53

The parable's central point is that entry into the kingdom of God is a gift of grace, not a wage earned by labour. We all memorised Ephesians 2:8–9, haven't we? "For by grace you have been saved through faith … not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Salvation itself — the entry ticket, so to speak — is the same gift for everyone who comes to Christ, whether at kindergarten or on the deathbed.

02:29

So here's the crucial second half of the answer, and it directly answers your question about reward. Scripture also teaches degrees of reward within heaven, distinct from salvation itself. We read in 1 Corinthians 3:12–15 that believers' works are tested through fire. Some works survive and are rewarded; some are burned up, but the person himself will be saved. 2 Corinthians 5:10 says, "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body."

03:20

Jesus repeatedly speaks of differing rewards. The parable of the talents in Matthew 25 rewards faithful stewardship discriminately, not indiscriminately — proportionally, not identically.

03:40

So the honest theological answer to the question is this. Salvation is the same free gift for the deathbed convert and the lifelong disciple. Neither earns it, and grace makes both equally welcome. But — and this is a big but — Scripture does teach that faithful obedience, sacrifice and stewardship across a lifetime of service is not meaningless or invisible to God. It is seen, valued, recorded and rewarded, even if we don't have full clarity on exactly what that reward looks like. The lifelong believer loses nothing by the latecomer's inclusion. They are not shortchanged either.

04:39

Very often we celebrate high-profile personalities who lived profligate lives and then, at a ripe old age, decided to believe in Jesus and give their lives to serve God, with all their great wealth in tow. But a young man or woman with all the gifts to succeed in wealth-building may have chosen to give their life to God and to serve him, ending up in old age with a small apartment and small savings. That person is often taken for granted and uncelebrated. There is simply nothing sensational about his story, compared to the man who gained great wealth and, in his old age, seemingly gave it up in order to serve God.

05:34

The first appears to have the best of both worlds, and the second appears to have been shortchanged by serving God too early. But is that true? The truth is that both were given salvation by the grace of God, so it doesn't matter when you believe. Both will ultimately appear before God one day, and I would like to believe that the rewards will be immensely different.

06:04

So what can you do? Resist letting the question breed either self-righteousness — "I have earned more" — or despair — "Why bother being faithful?" Faithfulness is never wasted with God, even when grace looks generous towards others. Remember that God is no debtor to anyone. He is generous with grace in granting salvation, but he is even more generous in rewarding his good and faithful servants. He is, after all, a just God.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

I can't have a child naturally. Why would God have a problem with me choosing IVF?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

0:00 | 0:00

In Short

There is no single Christian view on IVF; sincere, Bible-believing Christians disagree. There is no verse that permits or forbids it, so this is an area of applied wisdom rather than direct command.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

Episode Transcript

QUESTION 2

I can't have a child naturally. Why would God have a problem with me choosing IVF?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

Summary

Rev. Wan begins by honouring the grief of infertility, which is rarely spoken about and often compounded by loneliness: friends' pregnancy announcements, pointed questions at family gatherings, and monthly cycles of hope and disappointment. Scripture affirms the desire for a child as good and treats barrenness with compassion, as with Hannah, Sarah and Rachel.

Some Christians, notably many Catholics and some Orthodox and Protestant believers, raise concerns about two practices that can be part of IVF: creating multiple embryos with the expectation that some will be discarded or frozen indefinitely, given the belief that life begins at conception (Psalm 139; Jeremiah 1:5), and separating conception from the marital act. Other sincere Christians, including many Protestants, see IVF as a legitimate use of medicine, provided it's pursued thoughtfully — for example, fertilising only as many embryos as will be transferred, avoiding selective reduction and not discarding viable embryos.

He tells of a couple who, after years of struggle and much counsel and prayer, chose to fertilise only as many embryos as they were prepared to carry to term. Their baby has faced many medical challenges, and their church prayer group is still rooting for the child.

Key Learning Pointers

Infertility carries real, often hidden grief. Scripture treats it with compassion, not dismissal.
The desire for a child is good and honourable.
Christians who love God hold different views on IVF. The concerns centre on embryos created and discarded, and on separating conception from the marital act.
Many Christians pursue IVF thoughtfully: limiting embryos created, avoiding selective reduction and not discarding viable embryos.
This is an area of applied wisdom. The process of seeking wisdom matters as much as the final decision.

What You Can Do

Don't accept a simple verdict from anyone without engaging the specifics. Ask real questions about the process, the number of embryos created and what happens to unused ones, and let your conscience be shaped by informed conviction.
Talk to a Christian gynaecologist who can walk you through a clinic's practices, and pray for discernment.
If you know someone on the infertility journey, lead with comfort and companionship, not commentary on their choices. Job's friends were at their best in the first seven days, when they simply sat with him in silence (Job 2:13).

FULL TRANSCRIPT

I can't have a child naturally. Why would God have a problem with me choosing IVF?

00:00

The next question I have today is simply: "I already can't have a child naturally. Why would God also have a problem with me choosing IVF?"

00:18

Well, we're now talking about infertility. Infertility carries a grief that's rarely spoken about openly, so I want to thank you for raising this matter. It is often compounded by isolation and loneliness: friends announcing pregnancies and celebrating them, family gatherings with pointed questions, years of hope and disappointment on a monthly cycle. If you're asking this question, you've likely already been through some enormous pain. And now you're being told that there might be a moral obstacle on top of the medical one. I want to slow down and honour how heavy that is before going further.

01:14

I also want to be upfront. This is a topic where sincere, Bible-believing Christians genuinely disagree, and I think it does you a disservice to pretend otherwise. There is no single Christian view here. There are several, held by thoughtful Christians who love God.

01:45

The concern some Christians raise about IVF — notably many in Catholic and some Orthodox and Protestant circles — is usually not about the desire to have a child itself. That desire is honourable. Scripture consistently affirms that desire as good, and treats infertility with real compassion. Think of Hannah in 1 Samuel 1, or Sarah, or Rachel. Barrenness is portrayed as genuine anguish, not something to be dismissed. And God is a compassionate God. He answered the prayers of these women.

02:34

The concerns centre on two specific practices sometimes involved in IVF. One is the creation of multiple embryos with the expectation that some will be discarded or indefinitely frozen. That raises concerns for those who believe life and moral worth begin at conception — Psalm 139 and Jeremiah 1:5 talk about this, as we have observed earlier. And second, some view the separation of conception from the marital act itself as wrong.

03:23

Other sincere Christians, including many Protestants, see IVF as a legitimate use of medical technology to address infertility, comparable to using medicine to treat any other bodily condition — provided it's pursued thoughtfully. For instance, only fertilising the number of embryos intended for transfer, avoiding selective reduction, and not discarding viable embryos. Some pursue IVF alongside choices like embryo adoption or single-embryo transfer, specifically to navigate those concerns with a clear conscience.

04:14

It sounds rather complicated. There isn't a verse, however, that says IVF is or isn't permitted. This is an area of applied wisdom, not direct command. And I would genuinely encourage you to consider both perspectives. Talk to a Christian gynaecologist who can walk you through the specifics of a clinic's practices. Pray for discernment and understanding. The issues are complex, and the risks are real.

04:59

A couple I know spent years in the infertility struggle before finally pursuing IVF. They made a conscious and deliberate decision after wrestling and conversing with their pastor and medical experts. They decided to only fertilise as many embryos as they were prepared to carry to term, treating each one as a full human life regardless of outcome. It didn't remove all the ethical complexity for them, but it let them move forward with integrity, rather than either blanket guilt or unexamined ease. What struck me most was that their process — the conversations, the research, the prayer — mattered as much to them as the final decision itself. They were seeking wisdom.

06:07

They now have a baby. The baby has faced many, many medical challenges, has been in and out of hospital and has undergone many surgeries. Both parents are surrounded by an understanding and prayerful Christian community, and all our friends in this prayer group are rooting for the baby even as I speak. The danger is not entirely over yet.

06:40

So what you can do. First, don't let anyone hand you a simple verdict on this without engaging the specifics. Ask real questions about the process, the number of embryos created and what happens to unused ones. And let your conscience be shaped by informed conviction.

07:06

Second, if you know someone on the infertility journey, whatever your view on IVF, lead with comfort and companionship, rather than commentary on their medical choices, especially negative commentary. Job's friends were at their best in the first seven days, when they were simply sitting with him in silence (Job 2:13), before they opened their mouths. This is one of those situations where we had better understand the details of this process before we presume to open our mouths and give advice.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

Will people with disabilities or severe mental illness be judged for not believing in Jesus?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

0:00 | 0:00

In Short

Scripture ties judgment to real moral capacity and to the light a person has been given. God's justice is never crueller or less compassionate than a loving parent's toward their own child.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

Episode Transcript

QUESTION 3

Will people with disabilities or severe mental illness be judged for not believing in Jesus?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

Summary

Rev. Wan speaks to the parent lying awake worrying about their child's eternal future, and to the person whose own condition affects their thinking and who has felt excluded by messages about faith.

As with infants in Episode 1, Scripture ties judgment to genuine moral agency — the capacity to understand and knowingly reject truth (Romans 1; James 4:17). God judges each person according to what they have done and the light they have been given (Romans 2:6; Luke 12:47–48), not by a blanket standard that ignores mental capacity. This doesn't make people with disabilities less valuable; every person bears the full image of God (Genesis 1:27).

He points to Henri Nouwen, who left teaching at Harvard and Yale to live among adults with intellectual disabilities and wrote of their powerful connection with God — a childlike trust like the one Jesus calls for (Matthew 18:3). He recalls a paediatrician and deacon he met at an early intervention centre in Batu Pahat, Johor, whose daughter has a significant intellectual disability. The father said that the God who loves his daughter more than he does could never demand from her what she is not capable of giving.

Key Learning Pointers

God's justice is never less compassionate than a loving parent's. Any answer must start there.
Judgment in Scripture is tied to genuine moral capacity and to the light a person has been given.
God knows every person intimately (Psalm 139:1–4) and judges with full knowledge of their capacity, history and condition.
People with disabilities bear the full image of God and can have deep, genuine relationship with Him.
Faith at its truest isn't complete doctrinal understanding. It is simple trust.

What You Can Do

If you're a parent or caregiver carrying this fear, bring it honestly to God in prayer. Don't carry it alone; seek out caring pastors and Christian social workers who understand disability, and let them guide you.
Include people with disabilities and mental illness in the full life of the church — not as projects, but as full participants and even teachers. Some of the deepest expressions of faith come from people the world too easily overlooks.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Will people with disabilities or severe mental illness be judged for not believing in Jesus?

00:00

Here's another question: "What about those born with disabilities or severe mental illness? Are they going to be judged for not believing in Jesus Christ, just like everyone else?"

00:16

If you're asking this, you might be a parent lying awake at night wondering about your child's eternal future. Or it may be you yourself, living with a condition that affects your cognition, and you've heard messages about faith and belief that make you feel excluded from something meant for everyone.

00:39

I want you to hear clearly, before anything else, that God's justice is never crueller or less compassionate than a loving human parent would be toward their own child. Whatever the theological answer, it must start there. God loves you for who you are.

01:05

We touched on the concept of capacity for moral accountability in the very first question about infants, and it applies directly here. Scripture ties judgment to genuine moral agency: the capacity to understand, and to knowingly reject, truth — back to Romans 1 and James 4 again. Someone whose cognitive capacity prevents that kind of conscious understanding and choice — whether due to a developmental disability, severe cognitive impairment or profound mental illness — is not held to a standard of accountability beyond what they are capable of meeting.

01:58

This is not a side theory invented to make us feel better. It actually flows from the consistent biblical picture of a just God who judges each one, quote, "according to what he has done" and the light he has been given — Romans 2:6 and Luke 12:47–48. It is not an arbitrary or blanket standard applied without regard to mental capacity.

02:35

This doesn't mean people with disabilities are somehow less valuable, less made in God's image, or less capable of genuine relationship with him. Quite the contrary. Scripture is emphatic that every person, regardless of ability, bears the full image of God (Genesis 1:27), and every one, regardless of mental capacity, has inherent worth.

03:08

In fact, there is the story of Henri Nouwen, who spent many years teaching pastoral psychology at Harvard and Yale, and ended up being called to serve with adults with intellectual disabilities. There are many wonderful stories in his books about how these men and women were able to connect with God in the most powerful way.

03:40

Many Christians who work in disability ministry, like Henri Nouwen, will tell you that people with cognitive disabilities display forms of trust, joy and connection with God that look remarkably like what Jesus called for when he said, "Unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3). Faith in its truest form isn't necessarily about complete doctrinal comprehension. It's about simple trust. And trust can take many forms.

04:24

For those with severe mental illness that affects reasoning at various points in life, the same principle of divine justice applies. God, who knows every person more intimately than they know themselves (Psalm 139:1–4), judges with full knowledge of capacity, history and condition — not a flattened, one-size-fits-all standard that ignores real human variation. This is a place where, honestly, we trust God's character more than we can fully map out the mechanism by which God causes people to believe in him.

05:12

Many years ago, I was involved for a couple of years at an early intervention centre for children with autism and cerebral palsy in Batu Pahat, Johor. I came to know a family with a daughter who has a significant intellectual disability and will likely never be able to articulate a theological statement of faith in the way we usually think about it. Her father, a paediatrician, told me once, through tears: "I used to lie awake terrified about this. Then I realised: the God who is more loving than I am toward my own daughter could never demand from her what she is not capable of giving. I trust God with my daughter more than I trust myself to understand the situation."

06:03

This brother, who was a deacon, said it all. I think that's about as good and honest an answer as any theology can offer. We must believe in the fairness of God and entrust these people to God, even though we may not understand how they can ever recognise Jesus Christ in that mental state.

06:34

So what can you do? First, if you're a parent or caregiver wrestling with this fear, bring it honestly to God in prayer. Don't carry this burden alone. Seek out caring pastors and Christian social workers who have thought carefully through this issue and who are familiar with disability issues. Talk to them, and let them guide you.

07:06

Second, include people with disabilities and mental illness in the full life of our church community — not as projects, but as full participants and even teachers. We can learn from them. I learned a lot from the kids with Down syndrome at that early intervention centre. They are so loving and so kind. Some of the deepest expressions of faith I've witnessed come from people with disabilities, whom the world too easily overlooks. They are loved by God.

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

I'm in an abusive marriage. Why does preserving it seem to matter more than protecting me?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

0:00 | 0:00

In Short

What is happening to you is not okay, and it is not your fault. Your safety matters to God more than any rule you have been told, and Scripture never asks anyone to endure ongoing abuse as a mark of faithfulness.

NEED HELP NOW? The National Anti-Violence and Sexual Harassment Helpline (NAVH) is available 24 hours a day for anyone experiencing violence or abuse.

Call NAVH 1800 777 0000 In danger: call 999 or SMS 70999

ASK WAN QUESTION | EP 3

Episode Transcript

QUESTION 4

I'm in an abusive marriage. Why does preserving it seem to matter more than protecting me?

REV DR WILLIAM WAN

Summary

Rev. Wan begins by grieving that people meant to support the listener have added to her suffering with an incomplete picture of Scripture. The passages most often cited on divorce (Matthew 19:3–9; Mark 10:2–12; 1 Corinthians 7) affirm God's ideal of permanence in marriage, but even they allow exceptions: sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9) and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse (1 Corinthians 7:15).

A growing number of theologians and pastors, including many with a high view of marriage, now recognise ongoing physical abuse as abandonment of the marriage covenant: a husband who violently harms his wife has abandoned his vow to love her as Christ loved the church (Ephesians 5:25). Using Scripture to trap a woman in danger inverts the very heart of those passages. God's heart for the oppressed runs throughout the Bible (Psalm 34:18; Psalm 10:17–18), and Jesus repeatedly put the vulnerable ahead of religious rule-keeping. Separating for safety is not a failure of faith.

He tells of a church member's wife who hid her injuries from her husband's drunken violence; when counselling didn't stop it, he advised her to separate. She later divorced, received custody of their two children, is now happily remarried, and is thankful she wasn't counselled to stay.

Key Learning Pointers

Abuse is never okay and never the victim's fault.
Scripture never asks victims to endure ongoing abuse as a mark of faithfulness.
Even the key passages on divorce allow exceptions. Many theologians recognise ongoing abuse as abandonment of the marriage covenant.
Your desire for safety is natural and legitimate. It is the abuser, not you, who has violated the marriage covenant.
Separating for safety, even permanently, is not a failure of faith.
Faithful counsel always puts safety first, and involves people trained in domestic abuse.

What You Can Do

Practically and urgently, connect with the National Anti-Violence and Sexual Harassment Helpline at 1800 777 0000. If you are ever in immediate danger, call the police at 999.
If someone confides abuse to you, don't default to trying to save the marriage. Believe them, prioritise their physical safety immediately, and involve people trained in domestic abuse.
Remember that protecting the vulnerable is not a lesser calling than preserving a marriage. In cases like this, it is the more faithful one.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

I'm in an abusive marriage. Why does preserving it seem to matter more than protecting me?

00:00

And here's the last question: "I'm stuck in an abusive marriage. My husband hits me. Christian friends say that divorce is not allowed. Why does it feel like preserving my marriage matters more than protecting me from the person who is hurting me?"

00:23

Well, I need to say something clearly and immediately before we discuss further. What is happening to you is not okay. It is not okay. It is not your fault. And your safety matters to God more than any rule your friends have quoted at you. I am saddened and grieved that people meant to support you have instead added to your suffering with an incomplete picture of what Scripture actually teaches.

01:02

Let's deal directly with the claim your friends made, because I think it misrepresents both Scripture and God's heart. The passages most often cited on divorce — Matthew 19:3–9, Mark 10:2–12 and 1 Corinthians 7 — address the sanctity of the marriage covenant and God's ideal for permanence. I said God's ideal for permanence.

01:38

But even within these passages, Jesus and Paul both acknowledge exceptions: sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9), and abandonment by an unbelieving spouse (1 Corinthians 7:15), where Paul says the believer is not enslaved in such cases — literally, "not bound." In other words, in these exceptions, even though God hates divorce, these teachings allow for divorce as an exception.

02:17

A growing mainstream of Christian theologians and pastors, including many who hold a high, traditional view of covenantal marriage, now recognise ongoing physical abuse as a form of abandonment of the marriage covenant. A husband who violently harms his wife has abandoned his vow to love her as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her (Ephesians 5:25). In the most basic and physical sense, there is abandonment.

03:01

Using Scripture to trap a woman in physical danger inverts the very heart of the passages being cited. In other words, the Scriptures have been used wrongly, to communicate exactly the wrong message.

03:24

More broadly, nowhere does Scripture ask victims to endure ongoing abuse as a mark of faithfulness. God's heart for the oppressed is a consistent thread throughout the Bible. "The Lord is near to the brokenhearted" (Psalm 34:18). The Lord defends the fatherless and the oppressed (Psalm 10:17–18). And Jesus' own ministry repeatedly prioritised the vulnerable over religious, self-righteous rule-keeping. He was famously criticised for this by the religious leaders of his day.

04:18

Sometimes separating for safety, even permanent separation, is not a failure of faith. In many cases, remaining in danger is not keeping a vow. It is, in fact, tolerating a sin against you.

04:39

I also want to push back on your friends' theology, because bad counsel in moments like this can cause you real harm. Faithful biblical counsel must always prioritise your safety first. It must engage church leadership or professional counsellors — ideally someone trained in domestic abuse — because general marriage counselling may end up insisting that you stay in the marriage, which could put you in grave danger. In this way, it may treat the abuser's behaviour as something legitimate, and not your desire for safety.

05:27

Your desire for safety is natural and legitimate. And I repeat: your desire for safety is not the violation of the marriage covenant. The one who abused you has violated the marriage covenant.

05:48

I once had a church member who was an alcoholic and beat up his wife during his drunken state. The wife kept hiding her injuries and lied about them. One day she confided the truth to me, and I subsequently met up with the husband. He admitted as much, and went for addiction counselling as advised by me. Unfortunately, the violence did not stop. I advised her to move out and be separated. Eventually they divorced, and she was given custody of their two children. Today she's happily remarried, with a blended family. She is thankful that she was not counselled to remain married on the flawed biblical interpretation that "God hates divorce" in that situation.

07:07

What you can do. First, practically and urgently, please connect with the National Anti-Violence and Sexual Harassment Helpline. The number is 1800 777 0000. And if at any time you are in immediate danger, when the violence cannot be stopped, call the police at once at 999. It is important that you are safe.

07:46

Second, for Christians hearing this: if someone confides abuse to you, do not default to trying to save the marriage. Believe that the assault — the beating of the wife — is real. Prioritise their physical safety immediately, and involve people specifically trained in domestic abuse. Battered women have died from such prolonged, hidden abuse.

08:21

Protecting the vulnerable is not a lesser calling than preserving a marriage. In cases like this, it is the more faithful one. We are not called to preserve a bad marriage where a spouse is at risk of being beaten to death.

08:46

And that's it for today. I hope this conversation has given you something to think about, and helped you see some of these difficult questions from different perspectives. Thanks for listening, and God bless you.

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